I, for one, am sick and tired of being told I need to “understand” Magas.
Not anymore. I am sick of THEM.
I’ve avoided friends who I know voted for TFG. I want nothing to do with them. There’s no damn excuse anymore. Unless they’ve been living on the moon, they know exactly who and what TFG is. It doesn’t matter what station they watch or what programs they listen to. They are willfully ignoring all the evidence against TFG.
A lying, treasonous, 2x impeached, top secret document stealing, emoluments violating, grifting, 4x indicted, 34 counts felon, convicted tax and business fraud, and convicted rapist.
“Suckers and losers”, “ I don’t get it, what was in it for them”, “he knew what he signed up for”, “ he’s a war hero because he was captured”.
With a healthy dose of Nazi hatred of those "vermin poisoning the blood of our nation" thrown in. Or as Trump would call them, good people. It isn't a coincidence that the insurrectionists at the Capitol carried Confederate, Nazi and Trump flags - it's all of a same piece.
I keep thinking about James Baldwin, the brilliant author. Look up his interviews up in YouTube. Read Native Son.
He (and Martin Luther King who was wary of Baldwin because he was gay) both understood all too well what was happening as Civil Rights protests exploded then receded. They knew and warned us when America declared victory over racism that it was a false win, built upon unstable sand.
Baldwin explains so clearly and cogently why it could not hold. Being both Black and Gay gave him a unique perspective.
Just as after the Civil War, everything Lincoln and the abolitionists fought for was thrown back through dissimulation, lies, and remaking of history. To remind yourself how fraught that time was, watch Manhunt about Booth's assassination on Apple TV+. Just a few good men and decisions stood between losing the entire Republic to the very people Lincoln and the North had just soundly defeated at great cost--all so America could rid herself of slavery. We are still fighting that fight, I am convinced.
So, we are now going through our third round with trying to shake off the horrible legacy of enslaving indigenous and African Americans. Which means there is only so much change we as a nation or people can bear before we get too exhausted, throw our hands up in frustration, and tell each other to be more tolerant of one another. Progress has been made but so much work still remains to be done.
America cannot give in to the positions Republicans are taking now without losing everything this country stands for. Republicans are now defined by intolerance and attacks on our Democracy.
Republicans have proven they don't believe in us anymore--and perhaps they never did, despite all those loud protestations and wrapping themselves in a flag they bastardized.
Great summary! When we think in terms of decades, a HUGE portion of this is backlash against Obama. Unfortunately, people who aren’t quite KKK but are more Archie Bunker were freaked the hell out by seeing him not only win twice but do an incredibly competent job. Now they can’t deny that “progress” may well have overtaken them and are desperate to rewind reality.
That is why Trump’s first political line was “Obama isn’t really American, birth certificate blah, blah, blah” and his second was “Anybody who isn’t really American is a rapist and drug mule”.
It’s been a genuine shock to learn that tens of millions of Americans who see their fellow humans with extra melanin or vaginas or differences in their supernatural beliefs - those they have never had to compete with - a little like I think of AI: “Are they coming for my job next? Is MY future already gone?”
They are convinced that they can regain privileges via mass deportation, forced birth and re-legalized segregation. It’s all a zero sum game to them. They lack the confidence to create a damn thing that could make the total pie big enough for everyone. They are humiliated by being outpaced and, rather than admit their limited talent and effort, must claim that others were handed advantages they were denied.
Meanwhile, we progressives were caught flat footed because we not only elected a Black President, we expanded rights and started experiencing real diversity and nothing went haywire. We had finally been able to show EVIDENCE that we could all participate in our great experiment and the USA could continue to lead the world. We celebrated. We congratulated less open minded folks for their personal growth and thought we’d all move forward TOGETHER as stronger union made up of increasingly enlightened citizens.
Boy oh boy, were we wrong! Every accomplishment of our previously marginalized peers left the Trumpsters bitter and vengeful. Now, they will buy into ANY bullshit that justifies going on offense.
Peace has no value to them so we can never retreat. This country NEEDS a functioning meritocracy based on ideas and performance. We NEED every kid to be invited to contribute and to benefit. We need the best MINDS from everywhere. Without them, we cannot compete for jobs or defend ourselves against adversaries.
Winning for them is an existential imperative at an individual or demographic level but for us it is existential at a NATIONAL level.
Funny, I worked in an industry that was all male that constantly talked about 'meritocracy'. It was rare I saw another female for decades. I loved the job and did well. To me, it was all about doing great work, I ignored everything else.
But I observed through the years as more women tried to flow into the discipline, that what was regarded as having merit slid around suspiciously--depending on whether it was a woman or a man who did the job. In short, awfully subjective judgments.
There are issues with 'meritocracy' if you don't take a hard look at WHO is in power, who gets to judge the value of someone's work. People like to pretend it is even handed, but when there is an imbalance in power, or a huge majority of one group in control, there is inevitable tribal behavior. There were a lot of terrifically competent women who got the short end of the stick, and mediocre men who got a hell of a lot more grace for their mistakes than women were granted. Which was a real shame.
It's human. We all have a very hard time seeing beyond ourselves. But my ears perk up when I hear that word meritocracy. In theory, that's nice. In practice, it has often skewed into institutionalized discrimination.
That’s where you are wrong. We want everyone to be able to compete for great jobs. We want everyone to be able to chart their path without being held back by the paths that have not been open before to people who looked a certain way. We don’t want only rich kids to attend great schools. We want our system to try to give everyone opportunities so everyone can be fairly accountable for results. We don’t want the room where it happens to be full of homogenous people whose main priority is to make sure that they are never challenged for the power and money they see as their birthright. We believe that talent is available in every demographic and when rewards diverge significantly from that, it shows a system still in the grip of its long term masters.
When W was elected, I told my husband that the south just won the civil war. Then Obama was elected, and my heart soared, thinking we slid back, but quickly realized it. Boy, was I wrong. These hateful assholes are back with a vengeance, & we cannot let them win!
You make strong and cogent arguments and I respect that. Tribalism is human nature...hence Chinatown, Little Italy, etc. But I don't see it as a Dem/Rep. issue. Meritocracy is not considered by many universities and DEI is definitely a Liberal idea. On a same anecdotal point, I do business with a woman owned company that has Zero men employed...
Please define DEI. Do you find “diversity”offensive? It’s just a way of describing humanity as it actually is. Is equity the problematic part? Why isn’t just being equal good enough? I guess because in history, the right to participate in decision making and economic prosperity was reserved for a few for so long that merely being equal is a demotion. Is it “inclusion” that breaks the deal? Exclusion is the goal? I don’t get all the hissing that goes on when the acronym DEI crosses some people’s lips. Either we believe that insight, intelligence and hard work are not dictated by superficial characteristics like race, sexual orientation and national origin or we don’t. If we do, DEI is just a way of helping people build vocabularies and habits that are considerate of other humans with whom we work or volunteer or go to school.
I'm reminded of Aldo Raine's conversation with Colonel at the end of Inglorious Bastards, "You're going want to take off that uniform, and hide being a Nazi. I can't abide that." Then he carves a swastika into the Colonel's forehead.
I wish we could brand all the MAGAs with "MAGA" in their foreheads. That's cruel and unreasonable, but emotionally I could get on board.
It will never happen - they're too far gone and too deep in the cult to ever admit to themselves just how vile they've become. So they double down screaming about all of our sins so they don't need to look at what they've actually become.
What a double standard...did Hillary and Democrats appologise for the phony Russian dossier? Or the media that pushed it? did the 51 former 'spooks' who signed a letter saying Hunter's laptop was more Russian disinformation, knowing the FBI found it true, apologize for the lies? Did Adam Schiff ask for forgiveness when he lied about having proof of Trump's 'Russian collusion"? Did Chuck Schumer apologize for standing on the Supreme Court steps and threaten Justice Gorsuch, even if afterwards a gunman tried to assassinate him ? Or how about Dr. Fauci with the lies about masks and 6 ft separation rule? Too long to lost here, but there is so much more...
A few years back I wrote on FB “I’m beginning to hate anyone that voted for Trump” I was admonished and told I wouldn’t have any friends. Trump voters are not my friends by choice. I deleted all social media accounts and haven’t missed them one bit.
Damn straight, Justin. There's a group here in Victoria County Texas called the Center for Peace and they try hold these moderated discussions between MAGAs and Democrats/liberals to find common ground. They never seem to get and conservatives let alone MAGAs to attend. The Fascist GOP County Chair put this way when asked why he and other MAGAs didn't go and find common ground with the libs: "Conservatives aren't interested in this kind weak sauce. We got better things to do."
Please know that you are helping us. And especially those of us that feel unheard. I truly hate those who follow blindly that thug drumpf. Some say hate is too harsh. Not true. Those who do not care about our nation are destroying our democracy
MAGA extremist thrive on hate. They live to hate. You may think not all MAGA extremists are not violent but think again. The J6 prisoners that sincerely regret what they did cannot explain their behavior. That’s what a cult does to you. Mix in mob mentality and it’s the perfect recipe for violence.
Also…you are correct, they always, eventually get to the Jews. Antisemitism is Hate 101, the hate that all the other hates are built upon. Notice the MO: dehumanize, make them lesser, tell ppl God doesn’t love them like he loves you. That they deserve the bad shit that happens to them, and that they are a threat and wanna take your good shit. It ultimately justifies any violence or genocide. After 9/11 I rallied around my Muslim friends bc I knew what they were experiencing. And that the evil eye of Sauron would surely come around to us again. Any Jew, African American or woman who can actually vote for Trump is a complete idiot.
No, she’s showing awareness of the reality of the situation.
Whatever other circumstances they have that may cause them to favor Trump (example: they’re rich and their taxes will go down) are vastly more offset by the damage he’ll do to the overall economy. (What good is it if your tax rate drops if your income drops even more?)
All of which pales, of course, given that as Jews/African-Americans/women he *will* come after them regardless of how much money they have.
So, yes, anyone who is a Jew, Muslim, hyphenated American, immigrant, POC, woman, who votes for Trump is indeed a short-sighted, willfully ignorant stupid person.
Such vile contempt for half the country...especially since you are so wrong and have made "stupid" allegations with no evidence of what you speak. Typical Progressive/Democrat defense mechanism of "projection". Note: The Democrat Party has become the mecca of the 'rich' and continually screws the middle class. Fact: Trump's economy was much better for EVERYBODY, Biden's for the wealthy. Under Biden, real income has dropped, vis a vis inflation. Look it up before you say 'stupid' stuff....
It’s rare you see a comment where literally every single sentence is the exact opposite of true. Usually there is SOMEthing actually based on reality. But, wow, that was so perfect in its utter mirror universe-hood that it simply astounds.
Arguing with a trumpturd is an exercise in futility. Projection is the foundation of hypocrisy and the rw extremists (which is to say the “ruling class” of rw messaging) have relied on manipulating their “good people” by projecting fear in service of their ultimate aim: purification for an imagined White Race Utopia. This underpins every “policy” prescribed in Project 2025. Obviously the progenitors of this hideous plan now feel emboldened to publish and promote in broad daylight elements of Herr Stephen Miller’s mass concentration camp evil intentions, for example. Add to that a complete revamping of civil service jobs, overtly transforming our functioning government into a patronage system complete with loyalty tests above all other considerations. Forget about competency! Just try and convince me that charges of a looming Biden dictatorship have any bearing to reality and are nothing other than a fear-mongering *projection* designed to conceal authoritarian thirst for dominance by GQP/Christian Nationalists. “Two legs bad, four legs good.”
Jack - I respect your effort to interact with people, including me, on the other end of the political spectrum. Frankly, most elected Republicans will not even show up at forum that’s not considered “friendly” anymore (meaning any forum where any speaker disputes that the completely unproven assertion that the 2020 election was “stolen”). Yet here YOU are making an effort to understand your fellow Americans’ thinking.
It’s clear from your comments that you are receiving a lot of skewed data but anyone who tries to go one layer deeper, who has not given up critical
thinking and who does not spew hate against minorities reflexively, is welcome as far as I’m concerned. I will never abide prejudice of any stripe but differences around policy are a normal part of democracy.
The other major drivers reflected in today’s economy have a lot more to do with Biden’s policies. Whether it’s investing in infrastructure, supporting unions, extending overtime protections to more middle class workers, bringing home manufacturing in key sectors including computer chips, etc it’s clear that workers are commanding wage increases since the unemployment rate is at a 50-year low.
What are leading economists saying about the state of the economy now? Check it out:
It’s true: Since Ford pardoned Nixon, this country just won’t hold Repugs accountable. From that to Reagan’s obvious back-room deals with Iran hostages, the whole Iran/Contra affair, Bush 41’s desert storm lies, and Bush 43’s Iraq disaster and more lies, you can draw a straight line to Trump. We would never have gotten here if one of those previous presidents had answered for his crimes.
Are you an adult? All Presidents do things that some of us don’t like. Only a few are predominantly criminal or corrupt, and lately those have all been Republican.
OK smart ass. Tell me what crimes were committed by Clinton, Obama, and Biden. I will give you that Clinton lied about a sexual indiscretion. I still would like to know what a MAGAt is doing here.
So back to name calling...at least you called me a smart one. Too long a list to do it all, so let's start with the Clinton's: you've already admitted Bill lied, paid off Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones, among others with NDA's (the same thing you just convicted Trump for doing), Hilary was found by FBI Comey to be illegally in possession of Classified information on her home computer, which was also illegally used for gov't business, destroyed evidence by smashing her cells and Blackberry and 'bleaching' her hard drive, wiping her emails, etc. The Clinton Foundation was a total fraud, giving about 15% to charity and accepting Foreign 'Donations' (sounds like influence peddling, al a Biden) Used the Foundation to put her daughter on the payroll, Umma Amadin, private jets, etc. This all while serving as Secretary of State and taking Chinese Contributions. Note after she lost the election, the Foundation folded. Hillary still denies she lost the election but only Republicans are 'deniers'. Read "Clinton Cash" for footnoted documentation. Then there was Benghazi. read "Ron Brown's Body" for how the Clinton's' do business. She was never charged, like Biden, for being in possession of Classified Documents, was she? Note Trump never sought her prosecution - so much for revenge. There is so much more, but start your rationalization so far.....
My journey has commonalities with yours, Justin. I, too, despise Trump supporters and don't feel ashamed of it. I believe that we are witnessing a partitioning of the USA. We will not be able to avoid finally splitting apart into two factions. A house divided cannot stand, and there is no way that we can unite. How can the rest of us live with fascists? Indeed, as the history of the USA demonstrates, we never really could live together.
We won't split. The fascists will crawl back into the shadow and pretend they were never fascists just like every other time they've tried to overthrow the country.
Love it! Loved reading this and feeling reenergized by every word. Ah, the spewing of vitriol early in the day gets the heart to pumping. I'll have to tell my only living relative left, the youger sister, that I've convinced myself to cut all ties with her finally . All in jest, but it's been a rocky relationship for the last few years anyway. Not speaking for weeks at a time. (Mom's funeral was really awkward.) I know we were both just hanging in hoping to be the one who got to say, "I TOLD you so" , but either way I was winning that one. I'm kidding, but only to a point. It's pathetic what THAT man has caused families to sink to.
This line from Peter Wehner struck me when I read it the other day: "One of the criteria that need to be taken into account in assessing the moral culpability of people is how absurd the lies are that they are espousing; a second is how intentionally they are avoiding evidence that exposes the lies because they are deeply invested in the lie; and a third is how consequential the lie is."
These Trump fans aren't children. They are supposedly sentient beings with free will. For a long time, I believed that if they could just understand the truth of what Trump says and does, they would change their views of him. But no, the awful truth is much more unnerving and that is that they know exactly who he is and they choose him for exactly those reasons.
Here! Here!
I, for one, am sick and tired of being told I need to “understand” Magas.
Not anymore. I am sick of THEM.
I’ve avoided friends who I know voted for TFG. I want nothing to do with them. There’s no damn excuse anymore. Unless they’ve been living on the moon, they know exactly who and what TFG is. It doesn’t matter what station they watch or what programs they listen to. They are willfully ignoring all the evidence against TFG.
A lying, treasonous, 2x impeached, top secret document stealing, emoluments violating, grifting, 4x indicted, 34 counts felon, convicted tax and business fraud, and convicted rapist.
“Suckers and losers”, “ I don’t get it, what was in it for them”, “he knew what he signed up for”, “ he’s a war hero because he was captured”.
This a vile man. A horrible individual.
Enough already. His voters can all go to hell.
Exactly. I understand them just fine: They're horrible people, for all the reasons Justin articulated.
So much of this goes back to how the Seditious South was handled during Reconstruction.
You're absolutely correct. MAGA is the Fascist Confederacy under a different name.
With a healthy dose of Nazi hatred of those "vermin poisoning the blood of our nation" thrown in. Or as Trump would call them, good people. It isn't a coincidence that the insurrectionists at the Capitol carried Confederate, Nazi and Trump flags - it's all of a same piece.
We fully know what "Justice delayed is justice denied" means now. Way past time to fix that.
I keep thinking about James Baldwin, the brilliant author. Look up his interviews up in YouTube. Read Native Son.
He (and Martin Luther King who was wary of Baldwin because he was gay) both understood all too well what was happening as Civil Rights protests exploded then receded. They knew and warned us when America declared victory over racism that it was a false win, built upon unstable sand.
Baldwin explains so clearly and cogently why it could not hold. Being both Black and Gay gave him a unique perspective.
Just as after the Civil War, everything Lincoln and the abolitionists fought for was thrown back through dissimulation, lies, and remaking of history. To remind yourself how fraught that time was, watch Manhunt about Booth's assassination on Apple TV+. Just a few good men and decisions stood between losing the entire Republic to the very people Lincoln and the North had just soundly defeated at great cost--all so America could rid herself of slavery. We are still fighting that fight, I am convinced.
So, we are now going through our third round with trying to shake off the horrible legacy of enslaving indigenous and African Americans. Which means there is only so much change we as a nation or people can bear before we get too exhausted, throw our hands up in frustration, and tell each other to be more tolerant of one another. Progress has been made but so much work still remains to be done.
America cannot give in to the positions Republicans are taking now without losing everything this country stands for. Republicans are now defined by intolerance and attacks on our Democracy.
Republicans have proven they don't believe in us anymore--and perhaps they never did, despite all those loud protestations and wrapping themselves in a flag they bastardized.
Great summary! When we think in terms of decades, a HUGE portion of this is backlash against Obama. Unfortunately, people who aren’t quite KKK but are more Archie Bunker were freaked the hell out by seeing him not only win twice but do an incredibly competent job. Now they can’t deny that “progress” may well have overtaken them and are desperate to rewind reality.
That is why Trump’s first political line was “Obama isn’t really American, birth certificate blah, blah, blah” and his second was “Anybody who isn’t really American is a rapist and drug mule”.
It’s been a genuine shock to learn that tens of millions of Americans who see their fellow humans with extra melanin or vaginas or differences in their supernatural beliefs - those they have never had to compete with - a little like I think of AI: “Are they coming for my job next? Is MY future already gone?”
They are convinced that they can regain privileges via mass deportation, forced birth and re-legalized segregation. It’s all a zero sum game to them. They lack the confidence to create a damn thing that could make the total pie big enough for everyone. They are humiliated by being outpaced and, rather than admit their limited talent and effort, must claim that others were handed advantages they were denied.
Meanwhile, we progressives were caught flat footed because we not only elected a Black President, we expanded rights and started experiencing real diversity and nothing went haywire. We had finally been able to show EVIDENCE that we could all participate in our great experiment and the USA could continue to lead the world. We celebrated. We congratulated less open minded folks for their personal growth and thought we’d all move forward TOGETHER as stronger union made up of increasingly enlightened citizens.
Boy oh boy, were we wrong! Every accomplishment of our previously marginalized peers left the Trumpsters bitter and vengeful. Now, they will buy into ANY bullshit that justifies going on offense.
Peace has no value to them so we can never retreat. This country NEEDS a functioning meritocracy based on ideas and performance. We NEED every kid to be invited to contribute and to benefit. We need the best MINDS from everywhere. Without them, we cannot compete for jobs or defend ourselves against adversaries.
Winning for them is an existential imperative at an individual or demographic level but for us it is existential at a NATIONAL level.
I am not tired.
👏👏👏👏👏👍🎯🎯
Insightful and cogent. Thanks!
I think you are confused...Progressives want nothing of 'meritocracy'
Funny, I worked in an industry that was all male that constantly talked about 'meritocracy'. It was rare I saw another female for decades. I loved the job and did well. To me, it was all about doing great work, I ignored everything else.
But I observed through the years as more women tried to flow into the discipline, that what was regarded as having merit slid around suspiciously--depending on whether it was a woman or a man who did the job. In short, awfully subjective judgments.
There are issues with 'meritocracy' if you don't take a hard look at WHO is in power, who gets to judge the value of someone's work. People like to pretend it is even handed, but when there is an imbalance in power, or a huge majority of one group in control, there is inevitable tribal behavior. There were a lot of terrifically competent women who got the short end of the stick, and mediocre men who got a hell of a lot more grace for their mistakes than women were granted. Which was a real shame.
It's human. We all have a very hard time seeing beyond ourselves. But my ears perk up when I hear that word meritocracy. In theory, that's nice. In practice, it has often skewed into institutionalized discrimination.
That’s where you are wrong. We want everyone to be able to compete for great jobs. We want everyone to be able to chart their path without being held back by the paths that have not been open before to people who looked a certain way. We don’t want only rich kids to attend great schools. We want our system to try to give everyone opportunities so everyone can be fairly accountable for results. We don’t want the room where it happens to be full of homogenous people whose main priority is to make sure that they are never challenged for the power and money they see as their birthright. We believe that talent is available in every demographic and when rewards diverge significantly from that, it shows a system still in the grip of its long term masters.
When W was elected, I told my husband that the south just won the civil war. Then Obama was elected, and my heart soared, thinking we slid back, but quickly realized it. Boy, was I wrong. These hateful assholes are back with a vengeance, & we cannot let them win!
You make strong and cogent arguments and I respect that. Tribalism is human nature...hence Chinatown, Little Italy, etc. But I don't see it as a Dem/Rep. issue. Meritocracy is not considered by many universities and DEI is definitely a Liberal idea. On a same anecdotal point, I do business with a woman owned company that has Zero men employed...
Please define DEI. Do you find “diversity”offensive? It’s just a way of describing humanity as it actually is. Is equity the problematic part? Why isn’t just being equal good enough? I guess because in history, the right to participate in decision making and economic prosperity was reserved for a few for so long that merely being equal is a demotion. Is it “inclusion” that breaks the deal? Exclusion is the goal? I don’t get all the hissing that goes on when the acronym DEI crosses some people’s lips. Either we believe that insight, intelligence and hard work are not dictated by superficial characteristics like race, sexual orientation and national origin or we don’t. If we do, DEI is just a way of helping people build vocabularies and habits that are considerate of other humans with whom we work or volunteer or go to school.
I'm reminded of Aldo Raine's conversation with Colonel at the end of Inglorious Bastards, "You're going want to take off that uniform, and hide being a Nazi. I can't abide that." Then he carves a swastika into the Colonel's forehead.
I wish we could brand all the MAGAs with "MAGA" in their foreheads. That's cruel and unreasonable, but emotionally I could get on board.
Well if they’re fine with tattooing Jews with a number, why would they object to being marked with MAGA forever????
🎯🎯🎯
So who exactly is OK w/ tattooing people with tracking numbers? Why such hatred for something so untrue?
Exactly my thought.
They want forgiveness? Then they can work for their redemption. and maybe, after years of hard effort, they’ll earn it.
But even then we will NOT forget.
Forgiveness comes only after admission of guilt and genuine repentance. At least, that's what I remember from my Catholic school days!
Like I said, they’d have to work for redemption first. Put in the effort.
Being assholes and facing no consequences may be what they’re used to, but not on my watch. They want forgiveness, they earn it.
Good luck with finding that from them.
It will never happen - they're too far gone and too deep in the cult to ever admit to themselves just how vile they've become. So they double down screaming about all of our sins so they don't need to look at what they've actually become.
What a double standard...did Hillary and Democrats appologise for the phony Russian dossier? Or the media that pushed it? did the 51 former 'spooks' who signed a letter saying Hunter's laptop was more Russian disinformation, knowing the FBI found it true, apologize for the lies? Did Adam Schiff ask for forgiveness when he lied about having proof of Trump's 'Russian collusion"? Did Chuck Schumer apologize for standing on the Supreme Court steps and threaten Justice Gorsuch, even if afterwards a gunman tried to assassinate him ? Or how about Dr. Fauci with the lies about masks and 6 ft separation rule? Too long to lost here, but there is so much more...
A few years back I wrote on FB “I’m beginning to hate anyone that voted for Trump” I was admonished and told I wouldn’t have any friends. Trump voters are not my friends by choice. I deleted all social media accounts and haven’t missed them one bit.
Seriously. If someone votes for Trump, they're a bad person. Why would i WANT to be friends with them?
Damn straight, Justin. There's a group here in Victoria County Texas called the Center for Peace and they try hold these moderated discussions between MAGAs and Democrats/liberals to find common ground. They never seem to get and conservatives let alone MAGAs to attend. The Fascist GOP County Chair put this way when asked why he and other MAGAs didn't go and find common ground with the libs: "Conservatives aren't interested in this kind weak sauce. We got better things to do."
They're objectively Bad people.
They are proud of their ability to foment violence, create fear and point out anyone that doesn’t think like MAGA are the “other”.
Please know that you are helping us. And especially those of us that feel unheard. I truly hate those who follow blindly that thug drumpf. Some say hate is too harsh. Not true. Those who do not care about our nation are destroying our democracy
I have no problem saying I hate Hitler, Trump adores Hitler, so yes, I hate Trump and every weenie in Congress that promotes his BS.
how?
Maybe not all MAGA extremists are murderous and homicidal but they are certainly ignorant and would be silent, complicit.
An “extremist” is not murderous? You’re looking to absolve the extremists of their extreme views?
Good gods! I will never understand why liberals are so fucking afraid to call these assholes out on their shit.
MAGA extremist thrive on hate. They live to hate. You may think not all MAGA extremists are not violent but think again. The J6 prisoners that sincerely regret what they did cannot explain their behavior. That’s what a cult does to you. Mix in mob mentality and it’s the perfect recipe for violence.
Also…you are correct, they always, eventually get to the Jews. Antisemitism is Hate 101, the hate that all the other hates are built upon. Notice the MO: dehumanize, make them lesser, tell ppl God doesn’t love them like he loves you. That they deserve the bad shit that happens to them, and that they are a threat and wanna take your good shit. It ultimately justifies any violence or genocide. After 9/11 I rallied around my Muslim friends bc I knew what they were experiencing. And that the evil eye of Sauron would surely come around to us again. Any Jew, African American or woman who can actually vote for Trump is a complete idiot.
so by claiming ALL Jews. African Americans and women should vote the way you tell them to, aren't you showing your 'racism' and idiocy?
No, she’s showing awareness of the reality of the situation.
Whatever other circumstances they have that may cause them to favor Trump (example: they’re rich and their taxes will go down) are vastly more offset by the damage he’ll do to the overall economy. (What good is it if your tax rate drops if your income drops even more?)
All of which pales, of course, given that as Jews/African-Americans/women he *will* come after them regardless of how much money they have.
So, yes, anyone who is a Jew, Muslim, hyphenated American, immigrant, POC, woman, who votes for Trump is indeed a short-sighted, willfully ignorant stupid person.
Such vile contempt for half the country...especially since you are so wrong and have made "stupid" allegations with no evidence of what you speak. Typical Progressive/Democrat defense mechanism of "projection". Note: The Democrat Party has become the mecca of the 'rich' and continually screws the middle class. Fact: Trump's economy was much better for EVERYBODY, Biden's for the wealthy. Under Biden, real income has dropped, vis a vis inflation. Look it up before you say 'stupid' stuff....
It’s rare you see a comment where literally every single sentence is the exact opposite of true. Usually there is SOMEthing actually based on reality. But, wow, that was so perfect in its utter mirror universe-hood that it simply astounds.
'projection'.....
Yes. You’ve captured what I was getting at in a single word.
What you do is indeed projection.
What is a MAGAt like you doing on this site? That was the stupidest, most misinformed, SPEW I ever read! Typical Republican asshole, dumb as dirt.
Arguing with a trumpturd is an exercise in futility. Projection is the foundation of hypocrisy and the rw extremists (which is to say the “ruling class” of rw messaging) have relied on manipulating their “good people” by projecting fear in service of their ultimate aim: purification for an imagined White Race Utopia. This underpins every “policy” prescribed in Project 2025. Obviously the progenitors of this hideous plan now feel emboldened to publish and promote in broad daylight elements of Herr Stephen Miller’s mass concentration camp evil intentions, for example. Add to that a complete revamping of civil service jobs, overtly transforming our functioning government into a patronage system complete with loyalty tests above all other considerations. Forget about competency! Just try and convince me that charges of a looming Biden dictatorship have any bearing to reality and are nothing other than a fear-mongering *projection* designed to conceal authoritarian thirst for dominance by GQP/Christian Nationalists. “Two legs bad, four legs good.”
Jack - I respect your effort to interact with people, including me, on the other end of the political spectrum. Frankly, most elected Republicans will not even show up at forum that’s not considered “friendly” anymore (meaning any forum where any speaker disputes that the completely unproven assertion that the 2020 election was “stolen”). Yet here YOU are making an effort to understand your fellow Americans’ thinking.
It’s clear from your comments that you are receiving a lot of skewed data but anyone who tries to go one layer deeper, who has not given up critical
thinking and who does not spew hate against minorities reflexively, is welcome as far as I’m concerned. I will never abide prejudice of any stripe but differences around policy are a normal part of democracy.
My view is that the recovery under Biden has 2 components. It had the tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that were put into place by Trump and have not yet expired. Extending those top end tax cuts is a huge animating force relative to the 2024 election for many of richest among us. The study cited here shows that 80% of the benefits from that law accrued to the top 10% of earners while accelerating the growth of our national debt. https://equitablegrowth.org/six-years-later-more-evidence-shows-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-benefits-u-s-business-owners-and-executives-not-average-workers/
Here’s another source: https://www.nber.org/digest/202406/investment-effects-2017-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act
The other major drivers reflected in today’s economy have a lot more to do with Biden’s policies. Whether it’s investing in infrastructure, supporting unions, extending overtime protections to more middle class workers, bringing home manufacturing in key sectors including computer chips, etc it’s clear that workers are commanding wage increases since the unemployment rate is at a 50-year low.
What are leading economists saying about the state of the economy now? Check it out:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/06/20/biden-vs-trump-economy/74077301007/
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/wealth-management-insights/how-is-the-us-economy-doing#:~:text=The%20gross%20domestic%20product%20of,and%201.6%25%20in%20Q1%202024.&text=Stocks%20are%20doing%20well.,than%2010%25%20in%20Q1%202024.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68203820#
Fuck them forever. Down into the fucking dirt. They deserve no quarter.
Damn right.
Republicans are all either fascists or fascist enablers.
It’s true: Since Ford pardoned Nixon, this country just won’t hold Repugs accountable. From that to Reagan’s obvious back-room deals with Iran hostages, the whole Iran/Contra affair, Bush 41’s desert storm lies, and Bush 43’s Iraq disaster and more lies, you can draw a straight line to Trump. We would never have gotten here if one of those previous presidents had answered for his crimes.
I agree on Nixon, Reagan and Bush 43, but am not so clear on Bush 41. Can you enlighten me?
This is Bill Moyers from 10 years ago, with a far more articulate explanation than I could give.
https://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/the-first-iraq-war-was-also-sold-to-the-public-based-on-a-pack-of-lies/
you mean like Clinton, Obama and Biden?
Are you an adult? All Presidents do things that some of us don’t like. Only a few are predominantly criminal or corrupt, and lately those have all been Republican.
Clinton, Obama, and Biden committed crimes? What planet are you living on? Get the fuck off this site, motherfucker!
you're a class act...can't make a civil discussion so in usual "Lefty" fashion, you try to shut down differing opinions....
So is this site ONLY for those that agree with your? I thought, at least the intelligent ones here would welcome dissenting opinions?
OK smart ass. Tell me what crimes were committed by Clinton, Obama, and Biden. I will give you that Clinton lied about a sexual indiscretion. I still would like to know what a MAGAt is doing here.
So back to name calling...at least you called me a smart one. Too long a list to do it all, so let's start with the Clinton's: you've already admitted Bill lied, paid off Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones, among others with NDA's (the same thing you just convicted Trump for doing), Hilary was found by FBI Comey to be illegally in possession of Classified information on her home computer, which was also illegally used for gov't business, destroyed evidence by smashing her cells and Blackberry and 'bleaching' her hard drive, wiping her emails, etc. The Clinton Foundation was a total fraud, giving about 15% to charity and accepting Foreign 'Donations' (sounds like influence peddling, al a Biden) Used the Foundation to put her daughter on the payroll, Umma Amadin, private jets, etc. This all while serving as Secretary of State and taking Chinese Contributions. Note after she lost the election, the Foundation folded. Hillary still denies she lost the election but only Republicans are 'deniers'. Read "Clinton Cash" for footnoted documentation. Then there was Benghazi. read "Ron Brown's Body" for how the Clinton's' do business. She was never charged, like Biden, for being in possession of Classified Documents, was she? Note Trump never sought her prosecution - so much for revenge. There is so much more, but start your rationalization so far.....
My journey has commonalities with yours, Justin. I, too, despise Trump supporters and don't feel ashamed of it. I believe that we are witnessing a partitioning of the USA. We will not be able to avoid finally splitting apart into two factions. A house divided cannot stand, and there is no way that we can unite. How can the rest of us live with fascists? Indeed, as the history of the USA demonstrates, we never really could live together.
We won't split. The fascists will crawl back into the shadow and pretend they were never fascists just like every other time they've tried to overthrow the country.
I hope you're right, my friend. With Drumpf on the scene, I think this dynamic has changed, and so I despair.
BRAVO.
Love it! Loved reading this and feeling reenergized by every word. Ah, the spewing of vitriol early in the day gets the heart to pumping. I'll have to tell my only living relative left, the youger sister, that I've convinced myself to cut all ties with her finally . All in jest, but it's been a rocky relationship for the last few years anyway. Not speaking for weeks at a time. (Mom's funeral was really awkward.) I know we were both just hanging in hoping to be the one who got to say, "I TOLD you so" , but either way I was winning that one. I'm kidding, but only to a point. It's pathetic what THAT man has caused families to sink to.
Exactly right. Thank you for articulating your opinions in a way I totally agree with.
Critically important piece.
This line from Peter Wehner struck me when I read it the other day: "One of the criteria that need to be taken into account in assessing the moral culpability of people is how absurd the lies are that they are espousing; a second is how intentionally they are avoiding evidence that exposes the lies because they are deeply invested in the lie; and a third is how consequential the lie is."
These Trump fans aren't children. They are supposedly sentient beings with free will. For a long time, I believed that if they could just understand the truth of what Trump says and does, they would change their views of him. But no, the awful truth is much more unnerving and that is that they know exactly who he is and they choose him for exactly those reasons.
🎯🎯🎯
great quote....but it applies to the Democrat/Marxist Party. No bigger lies than Biden's.
great quote....but it applies to the Democrat/Marxist Party. No bigger lies than Biden's